There is a corner of social media where millions visit. It is a place, amidst the sea of rage and comparison that looms online, that offers solace. Kindness. Introspection. Visiting here is an exercise in feeling steady and beautiful in the face of the uncertainty that grips the realness of being human. And it provides—at least, it does for this writer—arrows toward happiness.  This place is actually not a place but rather a person, Jeffrey Marsh, and the collection of their transformative work. A non-binary speaker, coach, and author of the best-selling book How to Be You, as well as a healing voice for trans- and non-binary rights, Marsh is prolific.

They tell stories about their experience and about radical self-love with such truth it practically blasts open a new portal of self-understanding. To imbibe the wisdom of Marsh, who is practiced in Zen Buddhism, is akin to landing on that clear radio station when you’re driving through the desert. They encourage you to love you. And they help you realize you’re not alone. “If people see things in my videos,” Marsh tells me, “it is because we’re going through the same stuff.”Using insights that conjure a Technicolor brilliance, Marsh helps their followers feel seen. Again, they do in my lived experience—and this is exactly why I reached out to Marsh to talk about the elusive idea of happiness. What is the concept of happiness? And why are there so many convoluted constrictions surrounding it? Marsh, with their complete grace, indulges.Editor’s note: This conversation has been slightly condensed and edited for clarity.

A Conversation about Happiness with Jeffrey MarshJeffrey, when I say the word ‘happiness’ what does that evoke? What does happiness mean for you personally?Total radical self-acceptance. No other definition.That’s freeing to hear.I was doing a zoom speech for a corporation and offered that it was possible to be happy while also having a hard time. In the conversation, somebody asked, ‘What are you talking about? How could you be happy and having a hard time?’ To me, if the definition of happiness is radical self-acceptance, then I could be anything and be happy. I could be grieving, I could be sad, and I could be happy.What do we get wrong about happiness? I ask this as I have felt that happiness is an idea drawn with constrictive lines. The conventional idea of happiness is a perfect picture of having—be it having a marriage, having a certain life, having money—and that can feel very exclusive. That idea has been something I’ve broken myself against…Say more about that…I think of happiness almost as a physical wall. The happiness is over there and I’m going to get it one day, but then when I try to grab it, I break myself against the wall. My question is: Do you feel there is a conventional idea of happiness that harms us?‘Happiness is a wall.’ That is beautifully said.I think for many people, it’s a couple layers deep. I don’t know if this is true for you. But for many it’s not just, I’m going to get it one day. It is, I should get it one day. And then the next layer deep is, but I can’t get it. Then the next layer deep is, so there must be something wrong with me. It keeps digging and digging down, down, down. Most people put the happiness after the thing: relationship, job, money. They put the happiness after the thing and what a shock it is if they get the relationship, get the job, get the money, because then they find out they’re going to be sad anyway. That’s just the human condition. It does come as a great shock to many people to arrive there. Because we could say ‘I’m unhappy because I haven’t gotten what I want.’ But then if you’re unhappy and you have what you want at the same time, what’s your excuse? Most people jump to it’s because I’m weak. I’m terrible. I’m bad at this spiritual stuff. There’s something wrong with me… and on and on and on and on and on. One of the secrets I’ve learned is: There are going to be times when you’re sad. And that’s just how it is. There’s nothing we can do about it.

If somebody doesn’t know what happiness could look like for them, where can they start?The step that people tend to forget is loving where you are.We really want the answer, don’t we? It’s a safety thing. We want the answer so we can feel safe. But the question really is: What am I looking for? What is happiness? In a way, happiness is the chance, the freedom, the place to explore what that is.You recently posted about the sentiment “everybody deserves love” and how when you went to the Buddhist monastery you learned that sentiment included you. Can that be extended to happiness?Of course. Yes. There’s a Buddhist mantra slash prayer: ‘May all beings find peace. May all beings find happiness.’ Well… how esoteric and spiritual can I get?Very. Please.This is the Buddhist principle of oneness. When I’m wishing may all beings  find happiness, that makes me happy for a few reasons. One: I’m a good person. But also, because there’s not really a difference. I actually don’t know if it’s working for somebody else. So for me, part of the nature of happiness is I’m going to work on mine and the world’s at the same time.In your work, from your book, How to Be You, to your coaching, to your workshops, you share deeply about your own journey of self-love and about the human experiences. When it comes to happiness and radical self-acceptance, is there something you wish you had learned sooner?No, because I don’t do regrets. I don’t wish I learned anything sooner. But I often do get asked if somebody is just starting out, how do you do that. It’s one of the great ironies of spiritual practice or growth or whatever you want to call what you and I are obviously doing. It’s one of the great ironies that when you need the most kindness and self-compassion, you are the least talented at giving it to yourself. Right in the beginning, you need an ocean of kindness, compassion, self-love, and probably your talent for giving that to yourself is itty bitty.

What you need to do is work on your talent for giving yourself compassion and the most convenient place to start is wherever you happen to be. I know this may sound catch-phrasy, but say you send out an email with three misspellings, or your dog is barking in the background of the Zoom. Can you in that moment say: I love you. Thank you. I know you’re trying hard. Can we just work with the thing that’s happening now, and then we’ll get to, I’m going to be happy, in a little bit.Is there anything I haven’t asked you about happiness that is important to you?Here is one parting thought, because we danced around it earlier: the systemic. So much of the Western model, the psychotherapeutic model, what we grew up with—I’m 44, so I’ll speak for myself—what I grew up with… so much of that model is what I think of as the American model: A pioneer cowboy, a pioneer woman hacking through the wilderness all by yourself. And you’re going to build a log cabin of your happiness all by yourself and do it all by yourself because you’re a Maverick or you’re the Marlboro man. But we’re not alone. For so many of us, it’s not just, I need to learn to be happier. It’s also that we need to change the systems in our culture and in our society that are leading to people like me being unhappy. They’re all mushed up.

We tend to get really focused on I need to heal my childhood. I need to do my exercises, I need to do my journaling, I need to, I need to, I need to… That is all good, but also, misogyny is going to have an effect on you. LGBTQ-phobia is going to get you down sometimes.I feel that speaks to the “wall” I mentioned earlier.Amen. Yep. I mean the wall is misogyny and systemic things holding you back, too. Because you’re supposed to follow a path.This may come off as an odd analogy. I think of global warming and climate change and doing our parts to respect our earth. For me, I want to reduce my plastic use.

I want to recycle more. But when I don’t do this, I get down on myself. Then I wonder: Why are these giant public companies allowed to be spewing out large amounts of plastics but then the onus is on us to do the right thing? Then we hate ourselves when we mess up.Yes. Yes. You are supposed to hate yourself almost into oblivion because you do not feel like cleaning out a peanut butter jar for it to go into recycling, but meanwhile: Exxon Mobil exists. Yeah, exactly. And so to me, activism is also part of happiness. Truly. And that’s exactly why.A viral social media star and the first openly nonbinary public figure to be interviewed on national television, Jeffrey Marsh is a writer, artist, activist, and social media personality. Jeffrey is the author of the bestselling Buddhist self-esteem guide How To Be You, an innovative, category-non-conforming work that combines memoir, workbook, and spiritual advice. Jeffrey has been a student and teacher of Zen for over 20 years. To learn more visit jeffreymarsh.com and follow them on Instagram at @thejeffreymarsh.